I like Batya, but her notion that Jews in America were not oppressed is so off the mark. Simply because we could hide that we were Jews, by taking advantage of our lighter skin shade, and move into a more accepting society does not mean we were not oppressed. Yes Jews were able to use the American system to create successful laws and lives, but the reason they needed to do that is because they were marginalized by the powers that be.
There are investment banks, because Jews were not allowed to work for banks. There are “Jewish” law firms because they were not allowed to become partners in White Shoe Law Firms. There are Jewish social clubs, because Jews were not allowed in the Older Country clubs. Brandeis University was created because of jewish quotas at the ivy leagues. There were parts of deeds that houses could not be sold to Jews.
I grew up in the Bible Belt, and was singled out with my sister by the public schools because we would not celebrate Christmas. We had to say christian prayers in public school even after the Supreme Court cases. Antisemitism was pervasive and is still pervasive within large parts of American society.
And considering that Crown Heights was a pogrom, and she herself wrote for years about the physical assaults and antisemitism being faced by religious Jews in Brooklyn how can she say that physical threats were not part of the American landscape.
I think Batya is mixing ideas here. No there was not an outward Pale of Settlement, and the ghettos were more because refugees and immigrants tend to live close to each other and there was no outward laws defining where Jews could live, but it doesn’t mean that Jews were always welcomed and that society was welcoming. Now lets talk immigration…..WW2, the Holocaust….
She is correct; the Jews were never an oppressed minority. Antisemitism was a gentleman’s agreement, as suggested by the movie of the same name. There were no Jim Crow laws or internment camps like the Japanese endured. General George Washington welcome to Jews, and even Hebrew was considered instead of English.
Oppression takes many forms. It isn’t all based upon the color of a persons skin. To say that that that is the marker is ridiculous. That Jews were part of the landscape of the US doesn’t mean there was not violent and virulent antisemitism and whether you like it or not, the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” is oppression. As I also mentioned above, Jews could escape their background by pretending to be “white like the WASP.” If there was no oppression there would have been no need for that. it’s the same with Jews who changed their names to more WASPY last names, so no one would know they were Jews and it would enhance their ability to be “successful.”
As I said lets talk about immigration at the time of the Holocaust. tell me if the Jews were so respected why were the shores of the US shut off to Jews trying to escape the Nazis?
That the Jews were able to take advantage of the structure of the US in order to fight for their rights sure. But they didnt just fight for their rights, they fought for rights that everyone in the country would enjoy. But interestingly enough those groups that the Jews fought for and helped have turned on us and quite frankly call for the slaughter of our children and celebrated October 7.
Society and how it treats you is an indication of oppression whether it is tacit or implied.
Yes Washington welcomed the Jews after he had interactions with Chaim Solomon. And yes Franklin wanted hebrew to be the language of the US (he was also the largest benefactor to the synagogue in Phili) but not because of the Jews, but because he considered the US, to be the new Israel. It had nothing to do with respect for the Jews per se. Jews were also not the only ones who studied and spoke hebrew. Note the emblems on the ivy leagues which are in hebrew. It wasnt “love” of the Jews, but a supplanting of the Jews as the receivers of Gods laws.
I have to disagree on a big point. The left DOES in fact hate Jews more than Christians and white people. A white person can go into leftist circles without having to qualify themselves and is being unrelated to some presumed ideology to the level that a left wing Jew would be required to denounce Zionism or face violence. A Christian just has to signal that they are the type of Christian that welcomes lgbtq and socialism and they often will use Christian references to try and loop people into their left wing views, stating that Jesus would have freed people from the ice detention center, etc. Jews on the other hand have become a special Target of derision who remains suspicious even after agreeing to the virtue signals. Maybe you haven't been in these deep left-wing circles in real physical proximity like I have and heard them talk 25 years ago about how the Jews have too much power (at a gathering comprised mostly of socialist Catholics). Maybe you've never had to fight somebody white who identified as a left wing Christian. I had to body slam some who attacked me just last month. To the jihadis who have become a primary intersectional axis on the Left, yes they also want to kill white Christians, but a Jew is like 1,000 extra points. And let's not forget the neo-nazis and Nazbols. People like to play games and pretend like national socialism and national bolshevism are somehow far right but they are the authoritarian center left. The white Christians don't have to also watch out for that side of the left which is the neo-nazis. While we may not be systemically oppressed by the government in any way, we are definitely unique and special targets for the extremists.
I will deal solely with today. I ( and we) are not oppressed. But we are despised by some. What is important is knowing who the some are. I am less concerned with an anti Semite who has no interest in socializing with me than one who has political power ( or is a strong supporter of a person who has such power).
In years gone by the liberal Jewish assumption or proclivity was to put that label on Christians . Many leftist jews still bitterly cling to those assumptions. While there are some church goers in particular churches ( that lean hard left) who may still deserve this broadbrush, the vast majority of Christians who live in accordance with their Christian values are anything but oppressors. Recent polling makes this clear. As do recent various words and actions and protests where jews are among those targeted . This is one of the objectives and lessons of intersectionality that is omnipresent in many settings.
The in the chain of title to my house, built in 1910 in Detroit, it says no Jews and no Negros (I’m paraphrasing). There are many clubs and organizations that would it allow Jews or Blacks as members in the 1900s. There is still a club in Grosse Pointe, Michigan where I have it on good Authority from a friend who is a member that might being Jewish would still be (quietly) disqualifying. My grandparents and parents experienced this discrimination directly in Detroit during their lifetimes.
We’ve seen this before. The Yekkas in Germany, who owned the factories that built the war machines, owned the Picassos, and thought the Nazis were never coming for them because they were above it all and essential…, the ones who were happy the throw Sephardic Jews under the bus, because they thought they were better, untouchable…, these are today’s liberal Jews who cow tow to the extreme left wing of the Democrat party simply for the sake of power. These are the ones who would pack the courts, import foreign illegals to retain representation in states where sane people are fleeing crazy policies by the tens of thousands, count votes of illegals…, justifying anything in their quest for power. You know their names. The wheel goes around. Nothing changes. Only titles.
I just finished your book. It inspired this thought about how we might go about countering the oppressor/oppressed worldview of the Woke:
"Yes, it is true: A terrible human price has been paid to build the modern world. Throughout history, ever since the rise of civilization, there has scarcely been a man on earth who was not both exploiting and being exploited. What is different now is that, unlike in other civilizations in which the evil fruits of oppression were largely wasted in war and display, our Judeo-Christian forebears were able to redeem the past by turning them into something good. Our job today is to complete the task."
We cannot underestimate the power of these elite organisations and people. They currently dominate the agenda (as proven by the countless articles and comments on Substack that have been written to counter these attacks on Israel's legitimacy - amazingly this is what they managed to achieve). This could only change somewhat if the 'silent majority' votes for the Republicans (who also have thier own fanatics) in the coming elections.
Jew here. We are not oppressed in the US. My dad taught me that we just need to work harder and smarter. I’ve done that and it has paid off. Very seldom have I been blocked from opportunities because I’m Jewish. I’ve experienced some anti-Semitic remarks, but I just ignore them. I’m living my best life, and I know many other Jewish people who are as well.
Have you read the book Jews, Turks, and Infidels? It’s about how Jews and other non-Christians were legally viewed under the Articles of Confederation. Many public offices required Christian oaths.
There have definitely been barriers, quotas, prejudice etc. That said, compared to much of Western Europe not to mention Russia and Eastern Europe…Jews historically had it a lot worse. I’m not sure I’d say Jews in America were “never oppressed.” But I think the broad claim and direction are more generally right than wrong when compared to other parts of the world.
I like Batya, but her notion that Jews in America were not oppressed is so off the mark. Simply because we could hide that we were Jews, by taking advantage of our lighter skin shade, and move into a more accepting society does not mean we were not oppressed. Yes Jews were able to use the American system to create successful laws and lives, but the reason they needed to do that is because they were marginalized by the powers that be.
There are investment banks, because Jews were not allowed to work for banks. There are “Jewish” law firms because they were not allowed to become partners in White Shoe Law Firms. There are Jewish social clubs, because Jews were not allowed in the Older Country clubs. Brandeis University was created because of jewish quotas at the ivy leagues. There were parts of deeds that houses could not be sold to Jews.
I grew up in the Bible Belt, and was singled out with my sister by the public schools because we would not celebrate Christmas. We had to say christian prayers in public school even after the Supreme Court cases. Antisemitism was pervasive and is still pervasive within large parts of American society.
And considering that Crown Heights was a pogrom, and she herself wrote for years about the physical assaults and antisemitism being faced by religious Jews in Brooklyn how can she say that physical threats were not part of the American landscape.
I think Batya is mixing ideas here. No there was not an outward Pale of Settlement, and the ghettos were more because refugees and immigrants tend to live close to each other and there was no outward laws defining where Jews could live, but it doesn’t mean that Jews were always welcomed and that society was welcoming. Now lets talk immigration…..WW2, the Holocaust….
AAA known now as a roadside ‘insurance’ , used to be a true ‘driving club’ which of course did not admit Jews in certain areas.
She is correct; the Jews were never an oppressed minority. Antisemitism was a gentleman’s agreement, as suggested by the movie of the same name. There were no Jim Crow laws or internment camps like the Japanese endured. General George Washington welcome to Jews, and even Hebrew was considered instead of English.
Oppression takes many forms. It isn’t all based upon the color of a persons skin. To say that that that is the marker is ridiculous. That Jews were part of the landscape of the US doesn’t mean there was not violent and virulent antisemitism and whether you like it or not, the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” is oppression. As I also mentioned above, Jews could escape their background by pretending to be “white like the WASP.” If there was no oppression there would have been no need for that. it’s the same with Jews who changed their names to more WASPY last names, so no one would know they were Jews and it would enhance their ability to be “successful.”
As I said lets talk about immigration at the time of the Holocaust. tell me if the Jews were so respected why were the shores of the US shut off to Jews trying to escape the Nazis?
That the Jews were able to take advantage of the structure of the US in order to fight for their rights sure. But they didnt just fight for their rights, they fought for rights that everyone in the country would enjoy. But interestingly enough those groups that the Jews fought for and helped have turned on us and quite frankly call for the slaughter of our children and celebrated October 7.
Society and how it treats you is an indication of oppression whether it is tacit or implied.
Yes Washington welcomed the Jews after he had interactions with Chaim Solomon. And yes Franklin wanted hebrew to be the language of the US (he was also the largest benefactor to the synagogue in Phili) but not because of the Jews, but because he considered the US, to be the new Israel. It had nothing to do with respect for the Jews per se. Jews were also not the only ones who studied and spoke hebrew. Note the emblems on the ivy leagues which are in hebrew. It wasnt “love” of the Jews, but a supplanting of the Jews as the receivers of Gods laws.
Many deeds in my area (Detroit) explicitly prohibited Jews and Negros in the 1900s. How exactly is that not discrimination?
I have to disagree on a big point. The left DOES in fact hate Jews more than Christians and white people. A white person can go into leftist circles without having to qualify themselves and is being unrelated to some presumed ideology to the level that a left wing Jew would be required to denounce Zionism or face violence. A Christian just has to signal that they are the type of Christian that welcomes lgbtq and socialism and they often will use Christian references to try and loop people into their left wing views, stating that Jesus would have freed people from the ice detention center, etc. Jews on the other hand have become a special Target of derision who remains suspicious even after agreeing to the virtue signals. Maybe you haven't been in these deep left-wing circles in real physical proximity like I have and heard them talk 25 years ago about how the Jews have too much power (at a gathering comprised mostly of socialist Catholics). Maybe you've never had to fight somebody white who identified as a left wing Christian. I had to body slam some who attacked me just last month. To the jihadis who have become a primary intersectional axis on the Left, yes they also want to kill white Christians, but a Jew is like 1,000 extra points. And let's not forget the neo-nazis and Nazbols. People like to play games and pretend like national socialism and national bolshevism are somehow far right but they are the authoritarian center left. The white Christians don't have to also watch out for that side of the left which is the neo-nazis. While we may not be systemically oppressed by the government in any way, we are definitely unique and special targets for the extremists.
I will deal solely with today. I ( and we) are not oppressed. But we are despised by some. What is important is knowing who the some are. I am less concerned with an anti Semite who has no interest in socializing with me than one who has political power ( or is a strong supporter of a person who has such power).
In years gone by the liberal Jewish assumption or proclivity was to put that label on Christians . Many leftist jews still bitterly cling to those assumptions. While there are some church goers in particular churches ( that lean hard left) who may still deserve this broadbrush, the vast majority of Christians who live in accordance with their Christian values are anything but oppressors. Recent polling makes this clear. As do recent various words and actions and protests where jews are among those targeted . This is one of the objectives and lessons of intersectionality that is omnipresent in many settings.
Grant, in his memoirs, said his order banning Jews was the most shameful thing he ever did.
The in the chain of title to my house, built in 1910 in Detroit, it says no Jews and no Negros (I’m paraphrasing). There are many clubs and organizations that would it allow Jews or Blacks as members in the 1900s. There is still a club in Grosse Pointe, Michigan where I have it on good Authority from a friend who is a member that might being Jewish would still be (quietly) disqualifying. My grandparents and parents experienced this discrimination directly in Detroit during their lifetimes.
We’ve seen this before. The Yekkas in Germany, who owned the factories that built the war machines, owned the Picassos, and thought the Nazis were never coming for them because they were above it all and essential…, the ones who were happy the throw Sephardic Jews under the bus, because they thought they were better, untouchable…, these are today’s liberal Jews who cow tow to the extreme left wing of the Democrat party simply for the sake of power. These are the ones who would pack the courts, import foreign illegals to retain representation in states where sane people are fleeing crazy policies by the tens of thousands, count votes of illegals…, justifying anything in their quest for power. You know their names. The wheel goes around. Nothing changes. Only titles.
I just finished your book. It inspired this thought about how we might go about countering the oppressor/oppressed worldview of the Woke:
"Yes, it is true: A terrible human price has been paid to build the modern world. Throughout history, ever since the rise of civilization, there has scarcely been a man on earth who was not both exploiting and being exploited. What is different now is that, unlike in other civilizations in which the evil fruits of oppression were largely wasted in war and display, our Judeo-Christian forebears were able to redeem the past by turning them into something good. Our job today is to complete the task."
Or something like that.
We cannot underestimate the power of these elite organisations and people. They currently dominate the agenda (as proven by the countless articles and comments on Substack that have been written to counter these attacks on Israel's legitimacy - amazingly this is what they managed to achieve). This could only change somewhat if the 'silent majority' votes for the Republicans (who also have thier own fanatics) in the coming elections.
Jew here. We are not oppressed in the US. My dad taught me that we just need to work harder and smarter. I’ve done that and it has paid off. Very seldom have I been blocked from opportunities because I’m Jewish. I’ve experienced some anti-Semitic remarks, but I just ignore them. I’m living my best life, and I know many other Jewish people who are as well.
Have you read the book Jews, Turks, and Infidels? It’s about how Jews and other non-Christians were legally viewed under the Articles of Confederation. Many public offices required Christian oaths.
Your book is superb dissection of the consequences of substituting the liner as k agenda for authentic Jewish values
There have definitely been barriers, quotas, prejudice etc. That said, compared to much of Western Europe not to mention Russia and Eastern Europe…Jews historically had it a lot worse. I’m not sure I’d say Jews in America were “never oppressed.” But I think the broad claim and direction are more generally right than wrong when compared to other parts of the world.
https://btzx9r2006.substack.com/p/double-standards-for-jewish-men?r=8lz27x&utm_medium=ios There is a double standard though
No they are the oppressors
I am perplexed as to why you follow me.